If any of you think that Chuck the Atheist must be wasting his time listening to Christian radio programs, I’d reply that on occasion there are some gems that I discover that make it all worthwhile. Case in point, my friend Pastor Gregory Dickow has some interesting beliefs that make me sit up and take notice from time to time. When asked by a listener on this radio show Ask the Pastor how could he reconcile the love of God with the wrath that god displayed in the Old Testament? Dickow replied that if God was kind to everyone it wouldn’t have saved the world. What he meant by this was that God was preparing the world for Jesus Christ. So the genocide that the Israelites committed to obtain the Holy Land was ordered by God to ensure the birth of Christ. The end justified the means.
The caller was still troubled by the fact that women and children, even animals, were periodically killed by God or the Israelites. Dickow tells us that there was DNA of destruction in the ancient world that God apparently felt must be removed. Saul didn’t completely destroy the Amalekites, and for years afterward that nation was a thorn in the side of David for many years. The DNA of destruction was so bad that by the time of Noah, God felt the need to wipe the whole slate clean. Evidently to eradicate evil DNA, all people including children needed to be destroyed.
But do not fear. After the New Testament dispensation, God brought Jesus into the world. Therefore God does not now judge societies in the same way as what we find in the Old Testament. He’s leaving his wrathful judgment for those who reject Jesus Christ, an eternity of damnation and suffering for those with half a brain and a skeptical disposition. It matters not one tiddle what sort of life you may have lead even if extremely moral by modern standards. Doesn’t that make you feel better about Christianity? Who else but God can set such an example of morality for us to follow?
Saturday, May 29, 2010
Wednesday, May 26, 2010
Strip Club Evangelist
My friend Gregory Dickow never ceases to surprise me with his responses to questions posed on his Ask the Pastor radio show. Dickow, an evangelical and fundamentalist Christian, has explained that Christians can believe in evolution and still be saved. He can’t imagine how Man has come from primordial slime, but isn’t doesn’t believe that these folks should be denied coming to the Lord. Homosexuals are welcome at Life Changer’s Church. Sure there is an expectation that once affected by the Holy Spirit, these folks will surely change their lifestyle. On more than one occasion I have heard Dickow explain that oral sex is permissible sexual behavior between a married couple. Whatever is pleasing to your willing spouse. I guess I’m down with that.
The last few days have supplied pungent atheist fodder. Today a man called (let’s call him Jake), and shared with the Pastor that he had been frequenting strip clubs. Jake claims to have saved souls along the way. He tells us he preaches the gospel to the strippers, and several of them have found the Lord, been saved, and quit their wicked occupations. It’s apparent the Jake is telling his story with conviction; he states that he believes that God has called him to his unique ministry.
“Who else,” Jake explains, “is going to preach the gospel to these women?” The only thing wrong, he relates, is that a friend of a fellow parishioner in his local congregation spotted him last Saturday night at Harold’s Hide-Away. Now he has to face admonitions from his fellow congregant that such behavior could cause…a scandal. Apparently Jake is a pillar of his local church.
What a misunderstanding! If she only knew that Jake’s heart was in the right place. “Oh, by the way,” Jake finishes. “Do you think I’m wrong?”
Of course Dickow once again didn’t disappoint. I thought for sure that he would tear Jake a new one. I’ve heard Dickow on numerous occasions zero in on suspect rationalizations of his callers. He very graciously thanks them for calling, and being so honest in their admissions, then proceeds to tell them that such a thing probably isn’t coming from the Holy Spirit. This time no other admonitions other than Jake should be careful of the demon lust. Dickow explains such ministry is possible, but more probably only for a short time. Fraught with difficulty such a ministry could be for any long-term stretch.
I should tell my wife that I should be atheism’s answer to Jake, and frequent strip clubs as well. I could also selflessly bring atheism to the broken world of titty bars. Don’t think the wife would go for it. I bet neither would Jake’s.
The last few days have supplied pungent atheist fodder. Today a man called (let’s call him Jake), and shared with the Pastor that he had been frequenting strip clubs. Jake claims to have saved souls along the way. He tells us he preaches the gospel to the strippers, and several of them have found the Lord, been saved, and quit their wicked occupations. It’s apparent the Jake is telling his story with conviction; he states that he believes that God has called him to his unique ministry.
“Who else,” Jake explains, “is going to preach the gospel to these women?” The only thing wrong, he relates, is that a friend of a fellow parishioner in his local congregation spotted him last Saturday night at Harold’s Hide-Away. Now he has to face admonitions from his fellow congregant that such behavior could cause…a scandal. Apparently Jake is a pillar of his local church.
What a misunderstanding! If she only knew that Jake’s heart was in the right place. “Oh, by the way,” Jake finishes. “Do you think I’m wrong?”
Of course Dickow once again didn’t disappoint. I thought for sure that he would tear Jake a new one. I’ve heard Dickow on numerous occasions zero in on suspect rationalizations of his callers. He very graciously thanks them for calling, and being so honest in their admissions, then proceeds to tell them that such a thing probably isn’t coming from the Holy Spirit. This time no other admonitions other than Jake should be careful of the demon lust. Dickow explains such ministry is possible, but more probably only for a short time. Fraught with difficulty such a ministry could be for any long-term stretch.
I should tell my wife that I should be atheism’s answer to Jake, and frequent strip clubs as well. I could also selflessly bring atheism to the broken world of titty bars. Don’t think the wife would go for it. I bet neither would Jake’s.
Monday, May 10, 2010
Chuck the Atheist Handily Dispatched on Ask the Pastor
Oh the shame! Sorry to have to report this to you good people, but yes indeed, Chuck the Atheist was handily dispatched this afternoon on my friend Gregory Dickow’s radio show, Ask the Pastor. Heard on the afternoon drive on Chicago’s WYLL AM 1160, Pastor Dickow fields questions of all sorts from all sorts of people, and most graciously welcomes atheist callers as well as the beloved of Jesus on his show. I believe that we hold each other in high regard; he’s a loving individual bent on helping save the world, and has called Chuck the Atheist a respectful friend to the show.
I never really try to engage him in any debate. It’s not what the show is really about, so says the Pastor. It’s his show, and I do my best to respect the boundaries that Dickow has set. I’ve listened to the show for a long time, and have felt his humanism demonstrated to some very screwed up people. The man does have saintly tendencies. I have to give him that. So if I’ve had any sort of strategy to engage this man it has been through reasonably worded questions that any atheist might ask. Sometimes I can get a subtle point across, I think, and perhaps sometimes not. The Pastor well uses our discussions as teachable points for his listeners, and certainly gets the last word in.
A good question that I’ve asked the Pastor is if Christians can still be Christians and maintain their salvation; yet accept the Theory of Evolution. He said that of course that’s possible. In the (true) Christian religion, if you accept the sacrifice of Christ as an atonement of your sins, it is that which saves you. It is not certain positions you have on abortion, or homosexuality, or acceptance of evolutionary theory. It was he that pointed out before I that many religious people, some scientists included accept evolution. So in that conversation, I felt that I had planted some good seeds in some Christians, who might not realize that at least they won’t be sliding to hell on a greased pole for accepting evolutionary theory…if they could just get beyond the manipulative, purposely deceitful rhetoric of the creationist literature and perhaps read the primary sources in the scientific literature.
But you also all probably know what creationists can be like. If evolution is true, god certainly would have let us know some way in the Bible. So today I didn’t fare too well; I think most of the listeners went away perhaps with the satisfaction that the Pastor got one over on good ole Chuck the Atheist. I originally called because I wanted to try to get him to concede that his comment to a previous caller that evolution is not a fact, but theory is a misconception of what is meant by scientists when they use this oft misunderstood language. Many of you know that theory has high status in science; it is not been yet disproved, often with multiple lines of evidence that presents a cohesive, complementary validation of itself. The Pastor wanted to shift the conversation from biological evolution to the credibility of Big Bang Theory. I didn’t have too much to say about that. I sort of stammered that it is what is accepted as the consensus of physicists, and really isn’t pertinent in to argument that Darwin himself put quite well, that there is a total lack of evidence for design in the natural world as explained by evolutionary theory. Dickow replied that it was more incredible to believe that something came from nothing like in the Big Bang. He felt that reasonable people should agree. As for evolution, he had the same argument from personal incredulity, that something as majestic as creation cab not be explained solely through naturalistic mechanisms. And of course he also cited the well-worn and tattered argument that you can’t accept evolution as scientific because there’s no way to wind back the clock and make observations of something that was purported to have happened millions, even billions of years ago. I got about one line in that evolution is an historical science, and the running narrative can be taken as a good explanation in spite of it not being along the strict lines of Popperian empiricism.
I have to give Dickow credit; he is an extremely good apologist for his faith. And although he may suspect that there is a bit more to evolutionary theory than which hard-line creationists give credit, he surely knows how to work over conversations with atheists into teachable moments for his listeners. He almost even convinced me of my own potential shame for my vacuous motivation to extol the veracity of atheism to a sick and hurting world. Paraphrasing Dickow:
“What good would the truth of evolution be to people? Even if there were millions of years between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, it still doesn’t get to the heart of the matter, that without Jesus, you are lost. I am all about helping people such that they might come to a realization that only through the belief of the sacrifice of Christ and his work of atonement for sins can they be saved. I don’t want anyone, including Chuck the Atheist to go to hell.”
But it’s all about planting seeds as the Pastor often says. Perhaps the one small concession that I was able to obtain today from Dickow was that one might possibly fit the theory of evolution between the inerrant lines of text in the Bible. He even said that he could meet me somewhere in the middle between the allegedly temporal adaptations that seem reasonable in man’s lineage and build more upon that if the evidence leads that way. He even said that he wouldn’t mind taking the time to be shown this. I’m not sure if he was really serious about that offer. I would definitely take him up on it, and could easily present enough compelling evidence that might take even a fundamentalist Christian a little further down the road of the acceptance of evolutionary theory.
I never really try to engage him in any debate. It’s not what the show is really about, so says the Pastor. It’s his show, and I do my best to respect the boundaries that Dickow has set. I’ve listened to the show for a long time, and have felt his humanism demonstrated to some very screwed up people. The man does have saintly tendencies. I have to give him that. So if I’ve had any sort of strategy to engage this man it has been through reasonably worded questions that any atheist might ask. Sometimes I can get a subtle point across, I think, and perhaps sometimes not. The Pastor well uses our discussions as teachable points for his listeners, and certainly gets the last word in.
A good question that I’ve asked the Pastor is if Christians can still be Christians and maintain their salvation; yet accept the Theory of Evolution. He said that of course that’s possible. In the (true) Christian religion, if you accept the sacrifice of Christ as an atonement of your sins, it is that which saves you. It is not certain positions you have on abortion, or homosexuality, or acceptance of evolutionary theory. It was he that pointed out before I that many religious people, some scientists included accept evolution. So in that conversation, I felt that I had planted some good seeds in some Christians, who might not realize that at least they won’t be sliding to hell on a greased pole for accepting evolutionary theory…if they could just get beyond the manipulative, purposely deceitful rhetoric of the creationist literature and perhaps read the primary sources in the scientific literature.
But you also all probably know what creationists can be like. If evolution is true, god certainly would have let us know some way in the Bible. So today I didn’t fare too well; I think most of the listeners went away perhaps with the satisfaction that the Pastor got one over on good ole Chuck the Atheist. I originally called because I wanted to try to get him to concede that his comment to a previous caller that evolution is not a fact, but theory is a misconception of what is meant by scientists when they use this oft misunderstood language. Many of you know that theory has high status in science; it is not been yet disproved, often with multiple lines of evidence that presents a cohesive, complementary validation of itself. The Pastor wanted to shift the conversation from biological evolution to the credibility of Big Bang Theory. I didn’t have too much to say about that. I sort of stammered that it is what is accepted as the consensus of physicists, and really isn’t pertinent in to argument that Darwin himself put quite well, that there is a total lack of evidence for design in the natural world as explained by evolutionary theory. Dickow replied that it was more incredible to believe that something came from nothing like in the Big Bang. He felt that reasonable people should agree. As for evolution, he had the same argument from personal incredulity, that something as majestic as creation cab not be explained solely through naturalistic mechanisms. And of course he also cited the well-worn and tattered argument that you can’t accept evolution as scientific because there’s no way to wind back the clock and make observations of something that was purported to have happened millions, even billions of years ago. I got about one line in that evolution is an historical science, and the running narrative can be taken as a good explanation in spite of it not being along the strict lines of Popperian empiricism.
I have to give Dickow credit; he is an extremely good apologist for his faith. And although he may suspect that there is a bit more to evolutionary theory than which hard-line creationists give credit, he surely knows how to work over conversations with atheists into teachable moments for his listeners. He almost even convinced me of my own potential shame for my vacuous motivation to extol the veracity of atheism to a sick and hurting world. Paraphrasing Dickow:
“What good would the truth of evolution be to people? Even if there were millions of years between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, it still doesn’t get to the heart of the matter, that without Jesus, you are lost. I am all about helping people such that they might come to a realization that only through the belief of the sacrifice of Christ and his work of atonement for sins can they be saved. I don’t want anyone, including Chuck the Atheist to go to hell.”
But it’s all about planting seeds as the Pastor often says. Perhaps the one small concession that I was able to obtain today from Dickow was that one might possibly fit the theory of evolution between the inerrant lines of text in the Bible. He even said that he could meet me somewhere in the middle between the allegedly temporal adaptations that seem reasonable in man’s lineage and build more upon that if the evidence leads that way. He even said that he wouldn’t mind taking the time to be shown this. I’m not sure if he was really serious about that offer. I would definitely take him up on it, and could easily present enough compelling evidence that might take even a fundamentalist Christian a little further down the road of the acceptance of evolutionary theory.
Tuesday, May 4, 2010
My Friend the Pastor
As an atheist my wife thinks I’m absolutely nuts when I listen to religious broadcasting on the radio. I’m pretty sure she’s not worried that I will convert; I once told her that after I’ve learned what I’ve learned and know what I know that if she sees me crossing myself before dinner that my mind is probably going. But I do listen to a couple of Christian radio stations that air out of Chicago. Originally I liked to listen the political opinions (seemingly homophobic rants in the guise of the protection of the institution of marriage, incredibly cynical and suspicious vitriol directed against candidate and later President Obama) and opinions on evolution, which unless these people are total idiots they must be knowingly distorting the record of 150 years of scientific research. As a biologist and a progressive, I am somewhat concerned what our religious brethren are up to. But on the evening drive home from work, I ran into the sort of Christian that defies stereotype casting.
Gregory Dickow is the pastor of Life Changers International Church based in Hoffman Estates, IL. He has a daily broadcast Ask the Pastor that airs in the early evening. I have listened to this radio call-in show for over a year, and have participated in the show by asking questions on subjects like evolution, different rewards in heaven for Christians with differing levels of good works, and other subjects. Mr. Dickow is always very cordial to me in spite of my handle, Chuck the Atheist. He should know that I don’t go around introducing myself as such, but thought that would be a good way for the Pastor to remember who I was. I’m by no means a vicious, spitting atheist of the Dawkins or Hitchens type (although I highly respect these individuals for other reasons). I think that evolutionists and atheists can have interesting and enlightening conversations without too much vitriol. Gregory Dickow is one such Christian that does not make an atheist like me feel uncomfortable. I have to say that I am impressed by his more progressive stance that seeks to diminish the guilt that Christians might have about the normal contradictions in their lives in comparison to the ideal of a Christ-like existence. No sin is better or worse than an as Pastor Dickow relates, and the guilt that most Christians feel seemingly emanates more from other Christians who chastise them for their homosexuality or adultery while not seeing that their own vindictive, gossipy ways are just as much an affront to their god or religion.
Also interesting to me is that Gregory Dickow used to be a pastor with Maranatha Christian Ministries, which was a pretty fundamentalist Christian denomination from the 70’s and 80’s. This group was often the subject of suspicion from mainstream denominations and the press for its cohersive practices and close control over members dating lives and marriages. It wasn’t uncommon for ex-members to report that they were told implicitly or explicitly that their salvation was in jeopardy for leaving the church. MCM dissolved in the early 90’s. I have first-hand experience of this group from my early college years at SIU; I was a member of that church for a year and a half, and experienced some of the same things. I think that by path towards atheism was aided by my experience with Maranatha, although that was certainly not the only decisive factor. I suppose that makes me mildly suspicious of Gregory Dickow, but not overly so. I think he is a dynamic speaker, and has made a positive impact on his listeners. If anything he doesn’t seem horrified to speak with atheists or condemn anyone that doesn’t agree with him. A pretty interesting character.
One observation I would like to make of the many callers to which I have listened on Dickow's show. If you base your opinion of Christianity upon these people, I think you'll find that something obviously wrong is going on at least in terms of the theology that Dickow promotes and the resultant effect that you might expect (if such thing were true). Many of the callers, who's intelligence might be somewhat of a question, seem to know nothing of the Christianity that they are allegedly following. They constantly seek validation from Dickow, and want to make sure that their intolerance of their gay sons or daughters is justified, want to know that their disapproval of someone's sexual proclivities is scriptural, want to be absolved because they don't want to pay their tithes, want to know that it was the right thing to do waste 30 years in a sex-less, love-less marriage to adulterous, abusive spouses because they think that divorce is a sin. Sure you can look at these people as naive, child-like individuals, who the Pastor should take under his wing, but it seems to me to be more indicative of the fact that Christianity and religion in general has to be one of the most bankrupt pursuits that one can follow.
I have to say that Dickow conducts himself with a great deal of class in spite of the fact that most of his callers can't seem to come into a relationship with Christ as Dickow allegedly has, don't understand the fundamental point of Christianity-an atonement of sins through the sacrifice of Christ, or don't understand his more charitable attitude towards homosexuals, drug addicts, and adulterers. Seems like Dickow may be the only one in his sphere of influence that understands what his religion is all about. Oh wait, that's more indicative of ill mental health. No one understands the supernatural being, who's spirit is living in your body, that is the chief architect of your morality, whom promised you that you would live forever. Either no one can understand that the living god is inside this man, or it all a bunch of woo-woo.
Gregory Dickow is the pastor of Life Changers International Church based in Hoffman Estates, IL. He has a daily broadcast Ask the Pastor that airs in the early evening. I have listened to this radio call-in show for over a year, and have participated in the show by asking questions on subjects like evolution, different rewards in heaven for Christians with differing levels of good works, and other subjects. Mr. Dickow is always very cordial to me in spite of my handle, Chuck the Atheist. He should know that I don’t go around introducing myself as such, but thought that would be a good way for the Pastor to remember who I was. I’m by no means a vicious, spitting atheist of the Dawkins or Hitchens type (although I highly respect these individuals for other reasons). I think that evolutionists and atheists can have interesting and enlightening conversations without too much vitriol. Gregory Dickow is one such Christian that does not make an atheist like me feel uncomfortable. I have to say that I am impressed by his more progressive stance that seeks to diminish the guilt that Christians might have about the normal contradictions in their lives in comparison to the ideal of a Christ-like existence. No sin is better or worse than an as Pastor Dickow relates, and the guilt that most Christians feel seemingly emanates more from other Christians who chastise them for their homosexuality or adultery while not seeing that their own vindictive, gossipy ways are just as much an affront to their god or religion.
Also interesting to me is that Gregory Dickow used to be a pastor with Maranatha Christian Ministries, which was a pretty fundamentalist Christian denomination from the 70’s and 80’s. This group was often the subject of suspicion from mainstream denominations and the press for its cohersive practices and close control over members dating lives and marriages. It wasn’t uncommon for ex-members to report that they were told implicitly or explicitly that their salvation was in jeopardy for leaving the church. MCM dissolved in the early 90’s. I have first-hand experience of this group from my early college years at SIU; I was a member of that church for a year and a half, and experienced some of the same things. I think that by path towards atheism was aided by my experience with Maranatha, although that was certainly not the only decisive factor. I suppose that makes me mildly suspicious of Gregory Dickow, but not overly so. I think he is a dynamic speaker, and has made a positive impact on his listeners. If anything he doesn’t seem horrified to speak with atheists or condemn anyone that doesn’t agree with him. A pretty interesting character.
One observation I would like to make of the many callers to which I have listened on Dickow's show. If you base your opinion of Christianity upon these people, I think you'll find that something obviously wrong is going on at least in terms of the theology that Dickow promotes and the resultant effect that you might expect (if such thing were true). Many of the callers, who's intelligence might be somewhat of a question, seem to know nothing of the Christianity that they are allegedly following. They constantly seek validation from Dickow, and want to make sure that their intolerance of their gay sons or daughters is justified, want to know that their disapproval of someone's sexual proclivities is scriptural, want to be absolved because they don't want to pay their tithes, want to know that it was the right thing to do waste 30 years in a sex-less, love-less marriage to adulterous, abusive spouses because they think that divorce is a sin. Sure you can look at these people as naive, child-like individuals, who the Pastor should take under his wing, but it seems to me to be more indicative of the fact that Christianity and religion in general has to be one of the most bankrupt pursuits that one can follow.
I have to say that Dickow conducts himself with a great deal of class in spite of the fact that most of his callers can't seem to come into a relationship with Christ as Dickow allegedly has, don't understand the fundamental point of Christianity-an atonement of sins through the sacrifice of Christ, or don't understand his more charitable attitude towards homosexuals, drug addicts, and adulterers. Seems like Dickow may be the only one in his sphere of influence that understands what his religion is all about. Oh wait, that's more indicative of ill mental health. No one understands the supernatural being, who's spirit is living in your body, that is the chief architect of your morality, whom promised you that you would live forever. Either no one can understand that the living god is inside this man, or it all a bunch of woo-woo.
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